Auteur Topic: Bijbel en koran (islam)  (gelezen 6740 keer)

Bumblebee

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« Reactie #30 Gepost op: november 27, 2003, 03:54:44 pm »

quote:

op 27 Nov 2003 13:52:47 schreef wardaaaa:
Maar ik heb een vraag en dat is hoe jullie kunnen accepteren dat iedere kind van Adam (dus iedere mens) automatisch met een zonde geboren wordt (namelijk de erfzonde)?


Hoi Wardaaaaa,

Wij geloven dat Adam door te zondigen in het Paradijs een vloek van zonde heeft gebracht over het menselijk geslacht als geheel. Dus over al zijn nakomelingen. Een mens op deze aarde geboren en onderdeel van het mensdom valt daarom automatisch onder deze vloek.

De vloek is verbroken en onze schuld voldaan door Jezus Christus, de Zoon van God en tegelijkertijd God zelf.

En wat betreft accepteren...
Wij geloven dat het zo IS, dus dan kun je het maar beter accepteren en er iets mee doen (= je leven aan Christus geven). Het is niet zo dat je kan zeggen "Wacht es, maar dit accepteer ik niet" en denken dat het dan weg gaat. Zo zit de werkelijkheid niet in elkaar.
Bombus terrestris Reginae

Baldur

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« Reactie #31 Gepost op: november 27, 2003, 03:58:02 pm »
Islam- Christendom= Vaticaan?

part 3

"The great counterfeit religion was Roman Catholicism, called "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth." Revelation 17:5. She was raised up to block the gospel, slaughter the believers in Christ, establish religions, create wars and make the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication as we will see.
"Three major religions have one thing in common – each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Jews look to the wailing wall in Jerusalem, and the Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City. Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place.

"In the beginning, Arab visitors would bring gifts to the "House of God," and the keepers of the Kaaba were gracious to all who came. Some brought their idols and, not wanting to offend these people, their idols were placed inside the sanctuary. It is said that the Jews looked upon the Kaaba as an outlying tabernacle of the Lord with veneration until it became polluted with idols.

"In a tribal contention over a well (Zamzam) the treasure of the Kaaba and the offerings that pilgrims had given were dumped down the well and it was filled with sand – it disappeared. Many years later Adb Al-Muttalib was given visions telling him where to find the well and its treasure. He became the hero of Mecca, and he was destined to become the grandfather of Muhammad.
"Before this time, Augustine became the bishop of North Africa and was effective in winning Arabs to Roman Catholicism, including whole tribes. It was among these Arab converts to Catholicism that the concept of looking for an Arab prophet developed.


Ik wens u veel wijsheid toe en steun van de Heilige Geest

Baldur

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« Reactie #32 Gepost op: november 27, 2003, 03:59:18 pm »
"Muhammad’s father died from illness and sons born to great Arab families in places like Mecca were sent into the desert to be suckled and weaned and spend some of their childhood with Bedouin tribes for training and to avoid the plagues in the cities.
"After his mother and grandfather also died, Muhammad was with his uncle when a Roman Catholic monk learned of his identity and said, "Take your brother’s son back to his country and guard him against the Jews, for by god, if they see him and know of him that which I know, they will construe evil against him. Great things are in store for this brother’s son of yours."

"The Roman Catholic monk had fanned the flames for future Jewish persecutions at the hands of the followers of Muhammad. The Vatican desperately wanted Jerusalem because of its religious significance, but was blocked by the Jews.
"Another problem was the true Christians in North Africa who preached the gospel. Roman Catholicism was growing in power, but would not tolerate opposition.
"Somehow the Vatican had to create a weapon to eliminate both the Jews and the true Christian believers who refused to accept Roman Catholicism. Lookng to North Africa, they saw the multitudes of Arabs as a source of manpower to do their dirty work.

"Some Arabs had become Roman Catholic, and could be used in reporting information to leaders in Rome. Others were used in an underground spy network to carry out Rome’s master plan to control the great multitudes of Arabs who rejected Catholicism. When "St Augustine" appeared on the scene, he knew what was going on. His monasteries served as bases to seek out and destroy Bible manuscripts owned by the true Christians.
"The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope.

"In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:

'A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment. She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael.
'Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah,, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad’s advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.

'Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine which prepared him for his "great calling." The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.
'While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.

'Muhammad began receiving "divine revelations" and his wife’s Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad’s mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba.

'Muhammad instructed some of them to flee to Abysinnia where Negus, the Roman Catholic king accepted them because Muhammad’s views on the virgin Mary were so close to Roman Catholic doctrine. These Muslims received protection from Catholic kings because of Muhammad’s revelations.

'Muhammad later conquered Mecca and the Kaaba was cleared of idols. History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who was married to the sun-god. They gave birth to three goddesses who were worshipped throughout the Arab world as "Daughters of Allah" An idol excavated at Hazor in Palestine in 1950’s shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest.

'Muhammad claimed he had a vision from Allah and was told, "You are the messenger of Allah." This began his career as a prophet and he received many messages. By the time Muhammad died, the religion of Islam was exploding. The nomadic Arab tribes were joining forces in the name of Allah and his prophet, Muhammad.

'Some of Muhammad’s writings were placed in the Koran, others were never published. They are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (Ayatollahs) in the Islamic faith.'

"When Cardinal Bea shared with us in the Vatican, he said, These writings are guarded because they contain information that links the Vatican to the creation of Islam.

"Both sides have so much information on each other, that if exposed, it could create such a scandal that it would be a disaster for both religions.


Het verbaas Johannes op Patmos niet dat er twee machten zijn die aanspraak maken op Jezus Christus.

Baldur

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« Reactie #33 Gepost op: november 27, 2003, 03:59:30 pm »
"In their "holy" book, the Koran, Christ is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was His representative on earth, then he also must be a prophet of God. This caused the followers of Muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man."

"The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the Arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of North Africa. The Vatican helped to finance the building of these massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:

1. Eliminate the Jews and Christians (true believers, which they called infidels).

2. Protect the Augustinian Monks and Roman Catholics.

3. Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican.

"As time went by, the power of Islam became tremendous…Jews and true Christians were slaughtered, and Jerusalem fell into their hands. Roman Catholics were never attacked, nor were their shrines, during this time. But when the pope asked for Jerusalem, he was surprised at their denial! The Arab generals had such military success that they could not be intimidated by the pope — nothing could stand in the way of their own plan.

"Under Waraquah’s direction, Muhammad wrote that Abraham offered Ishmael as a sacrifice. The Bible says that Isaac was the sacrifice, but Muhammad removed Isaac’s name and inserted Ishmael’s name. As a result of this and Muhammad’s vision, the faithful Muslims built a mosque, the Dome of the Rock, in Ishmael’s honor on the site of the Jewish temple that was destroyed in 70 AD. This made Jerusalem the 2nd most holy place in the Islam faith. How could they give such a sacred shrine to the pope without causing a revolt?

"The pope realized what they had created was out of control when he heard they were calling "His Holiness" an infidel. The Muslim generals were determined to conquer the world for Allah and now they turned toward Europe. Islamic ambassadors approached the pope and asked for papal bulls to give them permission to invade European countries.

"The Vatican was outraged; war was inevitable. Temporal power and control of the world was considered the basic right of the pope. He wouldn’t think of sharing it with those whom he considered heathens.

"The pope raised up his armies and called them crusades to hold back the children of Ishmael from grabbing Catholic Europe. The crusades lasted centuries and Jerusalem slipped out of the pope’s hands.

"Turkey fell and Spain and Portugal were invaded by Islamic forces. In Portugal, they called a mountain village "Fatima" in honor of Muhammad’s daughter, never dreaming it would become world famous.

"Years later when the Muslim armies were poised on the islands of Sardinia and Corsica, to invade Italy, there was a serious problem. The Islamic generals realized they were too far extended. It was time for peace talks. One of the negotiators was Francis of Assisi.

"As a result, the Muslims were allowed to occupy Turkey in a "Christian" world, and the Catholics were allowed to occupy Lebanon in the Arab world.

"It was also agreed that the Muslims could build mosques in Catholic countries without interference as long as Roman Catholicism could flourish Arab countries.

"Cardinal Bea told us in Vatican briefings that both the Muslims and Roman Catholics agreed to block and destroy the efforts of their common enemy, Bible-believing Christianm missionaries. Through these concordats, Satan blocked the children of Ishmael from a knowledge of Scripture and the truth.

"A light control was kept on Muslims from the Ayatollah down through the Islamic priests, nuns and monks. The Vatican also engineers a campaign of hatred between the Muslim Arabs and the Jews. Before this, they had co-existed peacefully.

"The Islamic community looks on the Bible-believing missionary as a devil who brings poison to the children of Allah. This explains years of ministry in those countries with little results.

"The next plan was to control Islam. In 1910, Portugal was going Socialistic. Red flags were appearing and the Catholic Church was facing a major problem. Increasing numbers were against the church.

"The Jesuits wanted Russia involved, and the location of this vision at Fatima could play a key part in pulling Islam to the Mother Church.

"In 1917, the Virgin appeared in Fatima. "The Mother of God" was a smashing success, playing to overflow crowds. As a result, the Socialists of Portugal suffered a major defeat.

"Roman Catholics world-wide began praying for the conversion of Russia and the Jesuits invented the Novenas to Fatima which they could perform throughout North Africa, spreading good public relations to the Muslim world. The Arabs thought they were honoring the daughter of Muhammad, which is what the Jesuits wanted them to believe.

"As a result of the vision of Fatima, Pope Pius XII ordered his Nazi army to crush Russia and the Orthodox religion and make Russia Roman Catholic." A few years after he lost World war II, Pope Pius XII startled the world with his phoney dancing sun vision to keep Fatima in the news. It was great religious show biz and the world swallowed it.

"Not surprisingly, Pope Pius was the only one to see this vision. As a result, a group of followers has grown into a Blue Army world-wide, totaling millions of faithful Roman Catholics ready to die for the blessed virgin.

"But we haven’t seen anything yet. The Jesuits have their Virgin Mary scheduled to appear four or five times in China, Russia, and major appearance in the U.S.

"What has this got to do with Islam? Note Bishop Sheen’s
statement: "Our Lady’s appearances at Fatima marked the turning point in the history of the world’s 350 million Muslims. After the death of his daughter, Muhammad wrote that she "is the most holy of all women in Paradise, next to Mary."
"He believed that the Virgin Mary chose to be known as Our Lady of Fatima as a sign and a pledge that the Muslims who believe in Christ’s virgin birth, will come to believe in His divinity.

"Bishop Sheen pointed out that the pilgrim virgin statues of Our Lady of Fatima were enthusiastically received by Muslims in Africa, India, and elsewhere, and that many Muslims are now coming into the Roman Catholic Church."
.
Over de Hoer en haar religieuze macht schreef Jesja reeds:  Het is de getrouwe veste tot een ontuchtige geworden (Jes. 1:21) De Ontucht-vrouw ( de Hoer) vermengd haar religieuze valsheden met  als Hoer-Beest in een religieus-politiek kader.  Satan reincarneerd in een Universele wereldmacht die zowel een religieus als een politiek-economisch kader inhouden. Satan maakt aanspraak op Christus, voor zijn eigen doelen. God de Vader maakt aanspraak op Zijn Zoon als Verlosser van deze wereld en Koning van een Hemelse Koninkrijk.
De Islam en al de andere niet-christelijke religies hebben in de kern de "Waarheid' Jezus, als spil en begin van een vals Evangelie. Jezus wijst hierop en zegt dat geen van deze religieuze stromingen Hem als Verlosser zien of dat Hij centraal staat. Alleen daar waar de Drie-eenheid deel uitmaakt van de verlossing door een Levende- en Geestelijke Jezus, daar is de Verlossing te vinden.


slot

j@f@

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« Reactie #34 Gepost op: november 27, 2003, 07:08:48 pm »

quote:

op 08 Nov 2003 23:48:12 schreef Marloes:
Mij ontbreekt de tijd zelf uitgebreid te reageren, maar op http://www.answeringislam.org/Dutch/index.htm kun je hier wel meer informatie over vinden.


http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Contra/index.html

Dit is ook nog wel een interessante!

Lutheraansch

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« Reactie #35 Gepost op: november 28, 2003, 12:52:40 am »

quote:

op 27 Nov 2003 14:37:00 schreef Baldur:


How the Vatican created Islam. The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera, which was told to him by Cardinal Bea while he was at the Vatican.
The Prophet, Muhammad
part 1
Wel als je ook al rascistisch gekleurde zelfverzonnen verhaaltjes van een meester-oplichter moet geloven kunnen we nog een heel eind komen.

Het echte verhaal achter de nep-expriesterAlberto Rivera (zijn echte achternaam luidt echter Romero) is op deze webpagina te vinden.

Maar goed, nu weer back on topic.
« Laatst bewerkt op: november 28, 2003, 01:04:53 am door Lutheraansch »
God komt niet in opdringerigheid tot de mens, maar in evenredigheid met ieders vermogen Hem te ontvangen.

wardaaaa

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« Reactie #36 Gepost op: december 01, 2003, 04:10:42 pm »
Vrede,

nog steeds geen antwoord.

Waarom onze geliefde en tevens laatste profeet Mohammed een omstreden persoon?

Blijf toch niet volhouden dat god drie is en zeg 1 dat is beter.
Want 1+1+1= 3 en geen 1.

Daarom is de Islam daar heel helder over, er is maar 1 god en geen drie in 1.


Vrede,
Ibrahim

Bumblebee

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« Reactie #37 Gepost op: december 01, 2003, 04:15:30 pm »

quote:

op 01 Dec 2003 16:10:42 schreef wardaaaa:
Blijf toch niet volhouden dat god drie is en zeg 1 dat is beter.
Want 1+1+1= 3 en geen 1.


God is drie en toch één.
Denk aan een pyramide: drie driehoeken, één ruimtelijk lichaam.

Van Mohammeds omstreden-zijn weet ik helaas niets.
Ik weet wel één ding: hij is dood.
Waarom zou je een overleden profeet, omstreden of niet, volgen als je de levende, opgestane Christus, Zoon van de Levende God, kunt volgen?
Bombus terrestris Reginae

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« Reactie #38 Gepost op: december 01, 2003, 07:01:30 pm »
Blijf toch niet volhouden dat god drie is en zeg 1 dat is beter.
Want 1+1+1= 3 en geen 1.


Dat wij, simpele mensen, bovenstaande niet kunnen bevatten, wil nog niet zeggen dat het niet zo is. Jij redeneert over de Goddelijke persoon met je menselijke verstand. En verstandelijk is dat ook niet te verklaren. Daarom heet dit ook geloven. En in de bijbel staan: Zalig zijn degenen die niet gezien hebben en nochtans geloven.

moontje

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« Reactie #39 Gepost op: december 08, 2003, 02:29:52 pm »
Ik zou willen zeggen: Lees het boek van Dr.Hanna Kohlbrugge eens
Het heet De Islam aan de deur  (op zoek naar een antwoord)

Baldur

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« Reactie #40 Gepost op: januari 06, 2004, 01:18:33 pm »
Beste Ikki,

De Geest der Waarheid is de Heilige Geest, die deel uit maalt van de Drie-eenheid en door de Vader in de Hemel aan ons is gegeven als Plaatsvervanger van Jezus. De Heilige Geest is dus een Goddelijke macht en kracht en NIET Mohammed. Mohammed was een gecreëerde menselijke profeet door menselijke religieuze leiders. Mohammed is gestorven en zijn beenderen liggen er even dood bij als van alle andere mensen. Dit in tegenstelling to Jezus, die OPSTOND vanuit de dood! Hij is een LEVENDE God en Mohammed een dood mens, zonder enige Hemelse tractatie m.b.t. de verlossing van mensen. Hoe de Islam ook lijkt op het Christus, het is niet hetzelfde en leidt tot de dood, voor zover mensen er aan blijven vast houden maar weten dat alleen Christus verlossen kan en geen ander!

Muhammed studied the works of St. Augustin which prepared him for his "great calling". The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.

While Muhammed was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wocked imposters and should be destroyed. Many Mulims believe this.

De zo geroemde relatie tussen Christenen en Moslims alswel het feit dat Christus deel maakt van de Koran en of gelijkwaardigheid m.b.t. het Moslim geloof is dus een fake en de bedenkers er van zijn dus fakers.

Want leert Jezus ons niet in Mattheus 28;

Mattheüs 28:9-20

1   Op de dag na de sabbat gingen Maria van Magdala en de andere Maria voor 9   Ineens stond Jezus voor hen! "Vrede", zei Hij. Zij vielen voor Hem neer, omklemden Zijn voeten en keken vol ontzag naar Hem op.
10   "Wees maar niet bang", zei Jezus. "Vertel mijn broeders dat zij meteen naar Galilea moeten vertrekken. Daar zullen zij Mij ontmoeten."
11   Terwijl de twee vrouwen naar de discipelen onderweg waren, gingen enkelen van de mannen die bij het graf de wacht hadden gehouden, naar de leidende priesters. Zij vertelden wat er was gebeurd.
12   De Hoge Raad werd onmiddellijk bijeengeroepen. Ze besloten de bewakers om te kopen en te laten zeggen dat ze in slaap waren gevallen.
13   Daardoor hadden de discipelen van Jezus Zijn lichaam kunnen weghalen.
14   "En als de gouverneur ervan hoort", zei de Raad, "zullen wij wel een goed woordje voor jullie doen. Jullie hoeven echt niet ongerust te zijn."
15   De bewakers namen de steekpenningen aan en deden wat hun was opgedragen. Zo is dit verhaal onder de Joden ontstaan. En zij geloven het nu nog steeds.

Dus de Joden (Orthodoxe) geloven nog steeds in de leugen aangaande Jezus opstanding.

16   De elf discipelen gingen naar Galilea, naar de berg waar zij Jezus zouden ontmoeten.
17   Toen zij Hem daar zagen, vielen zij voor Hem neer. Maar sommigen wisten niet wat zij ervan moesten denken.


Staat hier nu dat Mohammed macht, alle macht of een deel van de macht heeft, die alleen Jezus kan hebben?

18   Jezus kwam dichterbij en zei tegen hen: "Ik heb alle macht in hemel en op aarde gekregen.
19   Ga er daarom op uit om alle volken tot mijn discipelen te maken. Doop hen in de naam van de Vader en van de Zoon en van de Heilige Geest. Leer hen altijd te doen wat Ik u heb gezegd.
20   En vergeet dit niet: Ik ben altijd bij u, tot het einde van de tijd."

Staat hier nu dat Mohammed tot het einde bij zijn volgelingen is of kan zijn, terwijl hij doodgewoon in zijn graf ligt? Want waar in de Bijbel staat nu dat Mohammed ten hemel is gevaren? (Mocht het een gelijkwaardige zijn van Jezus)en waar staat nu dat Mohammed Jezus zal assisteren bij de opstanding der doden?
« Laatst bewerkt op: januari 06, 2004, 02:11:12 pm door Baldur »